Saturday, October 07, 2006

Short Break

Really sorry for the lack of updates last night and tonight.

We had a death in the family. Not a joke, not a story.

I am attending to personal matters this weekend, but I'll try and make time for an update tomorrow. I know some of you like to have something to read each day, but sadly, I can't offer that right now.

Hopefully tomorrow.

I'd prefer not to talk about this, so if you're going to make a comment, I'll give you a discussion topic:

White Mages who charge for raises. They suck.



At 9:22 PM, Blogger Myloko said...

Sorry to hear that Dave! ;_;

At 9:25 PM, Blogger Juiano said...

I'm sorry to hear about your loss [GM]Dave, I hope all goes well for you.

On whms who charge a fee to raise:
They're quite easy to rip off, for obvious reasons.

At 9:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


At 10:08 PM, Blogger Pi said...

Ohh, that sucks Dave. Hope you feel better.

At 10:17 PM, Blogger Kelley said...

I'm sorry, [GM]Dave. :( My sympathies!

At 11:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not to sound trite, but I'm sorry for your loss. Hang in there, Dave.

At 11:35 PM, Blogger Zarquon said...

If you're a WHM, the very essence of your job is helping people. To not stop and Raise 2 that dead guy just because he won't pay you 20k to do it is Asshattery. When I'm running around on my WHM, I make it a point to help out whoever I see along the way who looks like they need it. Like if I'm running through Qufim for some (probably stupid) reason, I'll stop and help out the odd party who looks like they are struggling, or if there's a BST out there soloing I'll prot2/shell2/Haste him. The MP is free, so there's no reason to charge people for your use of it. If you're a WHM, help out the other guy. Don't make the entire profession look like a bunch of self-abosrbed, selfish dickheads who are after your wallet.

Now, teleports, thats different. A teleport is at least as useful as a chocobo or an airship, so I expect people to fork over the gil if they want my services as a telewhore. >:D

*main post subject deliberately avoided*

At 12:26 AM, Blogger Tommy said...

Sorry to hear that Dave. My first time posting but have been a long time reader.

Take care of what you need too , your readers will still be here when your set. Good luck.


At 12:28 AM, Blogger Kittos said...

sure i'll pay 20k for a raise >_> just raise me

<_< *is raised and runs away* popo

At 2:49 AM, Blogger Aylee said...

I'm a 75 WHM, and I tell ya, the things people expect out of a WHM could fill a book. The requests I get per hour, just running around..

Yet charging for a raise is just irresponsible. How many millions of times have I been in the dunes, or another low level zone, and have died? there is no convient Reraise 3 to save me then!

Thank you, fellow WHM's. I'm not always on my main, and what comes around, goes around.

At 4:18 AM, Blogger hello fodder said...

Sorry to hear your news. Prayers, good wishes, sympathy, etc., all in abundance, as you have no shortage of well-wishers.

I'm happy to see that your readers can cope with your absence. Their world may wobble a bit, but it'll keep on spinning 'till you're fully able to return. Take the time you need; we'll be here.

Discussing Greed, Sloth and Pride (for a 3 out of a possible 7!) as they relate to the MageGate scandal.

At 4:30 AM, Blogger Argentos of Windurst said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 4:39 AM, Blogger StealthBomber said...

I always raise for free.

I pour some Jack Daniels in the deads honor.

At 4:54 AM, Blogger Argentos of Windurst said...

Well then, to hop right in on the discussion topic -- yes, yes they do. As a current level 35 WHM, I generally put all sorts of "I'm busy" commentary in my search comment, but all the same, when asked for a Raise, if it's not out of my way I'm glad to help.

Why would anyone in his or her right mind charge people to be raised? Okay, I get it, 150 MP is a lot. Big freaking deal. Get over it. The person laying on the floor just lost 10% of his experience, and you want to take more away from him? Why, because it costs you three minutes of your time to cast a spell and regain your MP? It's ridiculous, the way some players think.

"Oh, I have what you need, I must be able to make a profit off of you!" That's when I stroll along and say "I'll raise you for free, because that guy's an asshat." So what if it pisses other WHMs off? What are they going to do... report me to you? For what, being NICE to people. Oh no, that's a freaking crime! I must obviously be banned for helping people out for the sake of doing a good deed and not charging them out the ass! I'm a horrible businessman!

It's just a game, people. Damn.

At 5:18 AM, Blogger zerombr said...

My condolences, GM Dave

At 6:58 AM, Blogger Guitar Heroine said...

Sorry to hear about your loss [GM] Dave. I've been reading your blog for a long time and I thought that posting might be appropriate now. Hope all goes well.

At 7:07 AM, Blogger Adventure Dood said...

I would express my sympathy for you, but that is not the subject you wished for us to discuss.

I remember a simpler time when people didn't even charge for teleports all that often. Back then, you'd just have to be friendly enough with another white mage who was in the area and they'd gladly tele you for free. The whole procedure takes about two minutes, so nobody really cared. Of course now, like any unregulated free market economy, prostitution (in some sense of the word) has become the staple trade. I've gotten used to shelling out a few K just to get to where I need to get, but I still haven't gotten used to paying for a damn raise. If someone tells me they're gonna charge me for a raise, i only respond with "I can do that" so that when they do and ask me for my money I pull the old "I said i COULD, I didn't say I was GOING to" trick. I don't care if they get mad at me. They were trying to exploit me, and I exploited them instead. I don't care if they call a GM on me, cuz I have a feeling that they'll be the ones that end up in a dragon's belly.

At 7:42 AM, Blogger Pixie said...

white mages who charge for raises should be sent to Jormy ...

*hugs to Dave*

At 9:47 AM, Blogger TrueStoryGuy said...

As I was leveling up my WHM up to 37, I constantly got /tells from other parties asking for a Raise or a teleport. It was quite disheartning.

However, whenever I party at a low level and someone dies, there's always that damn WHM who's like "Yeah, I'll raise you all... for 10k."

"Okay... So you're here in Valkurm just to make money and not to be nice? Smooth."

At 10:11 AM, Blogger creature124 said...

Whm who chare for raasies are evil sons (and daughters) of bitches who need to be shot.

Being a WHM is all about helping people (this being the reaon I chose this as my basic job to get to 30) and chargeing for something so universally needed by the uncountable n00bs (who very often are poor buggers, also from experience) is a crime againt Vana'diel.

Teleports are different though. But anyone chareging more than 2-3k per tele must also be shot.

At 10:27 AM, Blogger Zarquon said...

I only charge 3k for a Teleport-Vahzl. But most of the time people will give me 5k, 7k, sometimes 10k just to get them out there quick. I never argue with that.

At 11:48 AM, Blogger Lokkin said...

Sorry to hear man, feel better soon. I might be going through similar soon.

WHMs suck, full stop.

Unless they're at my level.

and looking for a party.

Then their omnipotence is a step down from [GM]Dave.

At 12:58 PM, Blogger Natch said...

That sucks man.

Even though I'm only 16, I've had to deal with my best friend's death.

I heard about it on 6/6/06. Which, as you can imagine, REALLY sucks.

At 2:50 PM, Blogger Chrys said...

One of my good friends lost family on Friday, too - one of those people that's family to everyone they know.

Any class who charges for service that they have inherently is retarded. Even porting is retarded. But then, people are retarded.

Hope your weekend was retard free.

At 3:00 PM, Blogger Arkaine said...

lol Natch, that's just unfortunate when you hear it on THAT day in particular. :P

My deepest condolences to Dave. Respect.

As someone who plays WoW but not FFXI, I can still see how bad it must be to have a WHM overcharge for a teleport or raise.

Hell, I'm glad that as a Mage, I don't charge anything at all when people want me to teleport them to another city. Even though other Mages typically do, I'm just such a nice person. Before I deleted my Shaman character, when playing him I would ALWAYS resurrect any players I found, whether they were logged in or not. More often than that, I would find someone desperately in need of healing while in the middle of a dangerous fight, so I'd heal him, and thus the monsters would be attracted to me instead - in which case I'd bust out the good ol' hammer and spiked turtle shell shield and send them to meet their ancestors (if you get what I mean :P).

So yeah, I know how you guys must feel about those WHMs who charge for raises or overcharge for ports because there's always something like that happening in Orgrimmar or the Undercity. Sucks bad, man.


At 5:49 PM, Blogger creature124 said...

A WoWer!


At 6:13 PM, Blogger teelo said...


I also play a mage. It costs us 16s for the rune, at the very least, I ask for compensation for that to port someone.

We dont normally have resurrection abilities, but sometimes if I'm bored enough i'll rez someone with my jumper cables. But if that doesnt work, they dont lose anythinb running back, and shouldnt be so damn lazy.

As for white mages in FFXI charging for a raise, yeah they suck.

At 6:22 PM, Blogger Grenade71822 said...

To late. I play wow to as a palidin and i would raise, heal or buff even if they we some extrmely high level. Being nice goes along way. A very long way. And sorry for your loss Dave.

At 6:23 PM, Blogger Arkaine said...

oh look

I've multiplied.

At 7:29 PM, Blogger Madmidget said...

Sry for ya Lose Dave we all still <3 ya

on the whm thing I`m a 75 whm and I think if your going to make someone pay for what ya job waz made to do you shouldnt be palaying it i mean I dont even make people pay for teleports

At 8:12 PM, Blogger creature124 said...

damn...i was too late to stop the contagin from spreading...if only I had realised the scourge WoW would become eariler...then mabe a united front could have stoped it is too late. There will be no end to the World of Warcraft.

Oh by the way the newest southpark rocks. totally mocks WoW. great. Make Love, Not Warcraft.

At 10:43 PM, Blogger Chatcher said...

I am a 75whm, and WHMs that charge for raises suck. Do I like to go out of my way to raise someone. No! But I have and I'm sure I will again. When it comes to teleports, yes I charge, because most of the time thats how I make my gil. Kinda hard to solo things on whm =/
If I'm running by and see someone dead then I'll raise, but if I'm on a bird and my zone is still not close, then most of the time I will not dismount to raise. Am I wrong? Depends on how much the bird cost too lol

Sorry to hear of your loss [GM]Dave, but we can survive a few days :p

At 1:17 AM, Blogger Cyberdragon said...

Deepest condolences and God be with you.

Back to topic
As a whitemage I don't charge to raise. Unlike with a teleport a dead person looking at a larger xp loss is over a barrel. It doesn't mean I'm obligated to go zones out of my way either, if I'm going out to raise you I do it free. (Note I've never had a whm charge me for a raise however if I were to agree to pay a plaer for a service I will keep my word. Some people don't value their word, I do.)
Regarding mages charging too much for teleports I always respond to shouted offers and haven't seen a whitemage shouting his own price for a teleport in awhile so I'm curious where all the whm's charge too much for teleports is comming from since it's players seeking service that I see setting the prices.

At 5:03 AM, Blogger VinnieThe(retired)Foot said...

Ha Ha Ha
I'm the worst kind.
Was 68Rdm/61Drk/43THf/37NIN/ect/ect
am now 36Bubbleboy/10Squishy
oh yes, we are multiplying ~.o
As for WHM's charging for raises, hey it's a ffeee market. If your dumb enough to pay it instead of just walkin away..........
Stupid is, as stupid does.

At 5:05 AM, Blogger VinnieThe(retired)Foot said...

btw to all you non-WoW'er
a Bubbleboy is a Paladin.
a squishy is a Priest (similar to WHM)
Just didn't want you to be scratchin your heads to long ~.o

At 5:48 AM, Blogger Seranos said...

Yeah, but WHM's can't farm like every other job... why do they have to earn their money?


At 6:05 AM, Blogger StealthBomber said...

For raising, charging is gay. I can't say the same for teleporting, because its my main income. I charge 1-2k to be nice.

And also people will give ya a nice tip somtimes if you do it out of kindness.

At 6:29 AM, Blogger Ryuusuke said...

i am a whm and i think its dumb to do that the only time i think its appropriate is when u have to go a disgusting distance to rasie someone u dont know like idk im in white gate they r in sandy :P. I mean im a white mage to help people its what we do

At 6:47 AM, Blogger Thistle said...

Sorry to hear that. :(

At 6:54 AM, Blogger WHM of Death said...

[GM]Dave...your in all our thoughts.

Discussion: White Mages that Charge for raise

As a WHM I dont charge for a raise, many times i have been farming or such and see someone dead...I raise...that's what WHM's do.! But to other WHM's...if you are in a party tell/ask the party befor you raise a non party member. most parties don't mind..but is polite to let them know. I also rarely charge for tele's as well....but if someone in Whitegate is shouting for a Tele-Altep and wants to pay me 10K I'll take it, I'm not stupid

At 7:06 AM, Blogger Dantaro said...

As a whm I totally agree, charging for raises is bull shit. however, accepting donations is a totally different story. I won't ever not raise someone, but my raise macros for out-of-party play say "Donations accepted but not required." I could care less if I get money for it, but I wouldn't actually demand it.

At 7:55 AM, Blogger Morzrath said...

Sorry to hear it and don't worry about a "daily" blog. I think trying to get something out once/day is too much pressure anyway, let alone when things are tough.

There will be however many entries there are and it will be fine. :)

At 7:57 AM, Blogger Elzix said...

People who charge for Raise are just trying to profit off something no other class can do. Why they can't just raise and sit there to charge MP makes some sense, but it's not necessary. It would make dieing a little more enjoyable knowing you can ask for a res and not owe them your estate.

[GM]Dave, I'm gonna sound like another random symp, but I seriously know what your going through. Right after my Dad left for Alberta my Grandmother died, and I visited her once a week at the least. Stay strong [GM]Dave.

At 8:44 AM, Blogger tarinakarelia said...

whm who charge for a raise are the same as whm who charge to PL (power lvl... 4 any non players). Each job class has its own abilities useful in helping other people... thfs have treasure hunter and gil finder... who needs payment when you get xtra shit for free while fighting pretty much anything?? BLM has warp2. EVERY blackmage i know will gladly give a 'D2' many of them charge. Not only does this spell not even make them go horribly out of their way, they dont have to move at ALL. Whm charge for teleports cuz its what they can do for money in place of farming, which is difficult to say the least. Charging for raises... another way to make money. Yes, its really NICE to do it for free, it's nice to PL for free too... but when you REALLY need to upgrade your equip, you do what you have to. it doesnt make it evil or wrong anymore than that warrior running by not stopping to provoke every gob that the poor folks are trying to zone. If you expect whm to raise or heal every passing dying person, all classes should be expected to do similar. wether its killing each monster or healing each person so they DONT die... whm choose healing jobs so they can get to high lvls quickly, not so they can be a walking ambulance service. So the folks in the dunes suck up an XP loss once in a while... its what, 300 xp?? honestly... if people can get a raise anytime they die, when do they learn not to pull/fight like morons?? yes. im a whm. no i dont charge, for anything. i take whatever people give me. but i will not go from whitegate to sandy (as the example someone else gave) to raise someone. find a friend to search for a closer whm for you. or learn to reset your home point ><.

At 9:41 AM, Blogger Zarquon said...


You got that right, it IS hard for a WHM to farm. That's why we charge to teleport people.

At 12:43 PM, Blogger Fretion said...

As a BLM75/WHM37 I don't charge for Teleports, Raises or D2's. However, if I say "I'm Sorry, I'm busy right now" all you're going to earn for bugging me then is my /blist. I especially hate it when I've journeyed back to Windurst to check on my chocobo and do a little crafting, and someone starts pestering me for a Teleport ... I've left my Home Point in Whitegate for a REASON, and it would take me another 20 minutes to get BACK to Windurst. So giving you a Teleport is out of the question, unlss you want to wait until I'm NOT busy anymore.

The one I found the most annoying though was an idiot who sent me a /tell from Valkurm Dunes asking for a D2 ... when I was in Ordelles Caves!! I'm like, um ... sure ... come to me. Ordelles Cave's (G-9).

At 1:22 PM, Blogger Dale said...

Though I may not like or agree with half the things you do
( more like 90%).. Still,I'm sorry for you..
I mean that with all honesty..
best to you and yours.. in the RL..

At 1:28 PM, Blogger RDMFire said...

[GM]Dave, I had 2 deaths in my family 6 months ago, Mother and Grandfather, but I will say this, death is a part of life. No need to be sad. Yes there is a lot of work to do when someone dies and you have to finalize estates and probate. /hurray
I am sure you will hang in there.

Whitemage topic:

I use my whm powers to teleport for money. I don't shout my services, I don't name prices. I see someone shouting for a teleport, I /pcmd add 'name' and get them in party. They open trade box first. If they ask 'how much?', I say 'you choose'. If they don't wanna pay, I teleport them anyways.
Raises, if I am out jaunting around and I don't wanna give raise, I just simply type /anon.
No one knows the better of what I am I don't get bothered.
If I see someone dead, I raise them, unless they are gillie then they can just EaD.
Teleport money = Good
Raise money = w/e

At 1:38 PM, Blogger Zanbatou-sama said...

Well, most WHM don't charge for raises. But there are those others. And there still is MPK'ing.

At 1:39 PM, Blogger EndrilRM said...

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. Do what you need to do, your fans will be here when you come back.

At 2:09 PM, Blogger Drescher the Great said...

Sorry to hear about that. Hope everything will be alright in the end.


At 4:00 PM, Blogger ~*I Like Pink*~ said...

Im only a 70 whm but i farm nicely. You just gotta find what is best for you to farm. On Pandy server beastmans blood sell 100k a stack drops are decent little things like that add up :)
As far as charging for services thats just poopy!!! I dont even charge for teleports. But then again i dont waste my time sittin in Jeuno waiting for someone to toss me a gil. If you think a whm cant farm then take the time to lvl a job you can farm with.

At 5:02 PM, Blogger Zarquon said...

I have a job I can farm with, I've got a Thief at 61 I can farm nicely with. But I still telewhore on the side in Aht Urgan because when the beastmen raid the town and kidnap the Warp taru, business is good and you can rake in about 60k-70k in a couple hours. But for people who main their WHM and have no other job that high, telewhoring is a good way to make some gil.

At 7:58 PM, Blogger TigerWolf said...

Dude. Fuck worrying about the update. Worry about your personal matters first. People need to realize that this is just a fucking blog and it's not going to be the end of the world if you take a few days for your own personal reasons and don't post.

And if they DO throw a fit about it? Deluxe Package.

At 11:37 PM, Blogger Yunosuke said...

I apologize to hear about your loss. . . I hope that things are better in the future for you.

At 4:48 AM, Blogger Stocky said...

My sympathies.

At 5:44 AM, Blogger Kalli said...

Someone tried to do that to me. I have a 60 Whm and was leveling another job through the dunes and died. Someone stopped by and said someone was shouting "Raises 10K"



No Some nice Paladin ran by and gave me a raise. I checked the guy shouting and he was only level 30. Makes me wish I could have come back as Black Mage and cast Fire II on him.

At 5:46 AM, Blogger Kalli said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 6:24 AM, Blogger notkesirahonest said...

Bah, WHM's who charge are just not worth the time of day.

Mindyou, imo so are WHM's that insist on melee. There is one like this on an hnml ls i'm in. Gods he annoys me! I just want to slap him! The guy insists on playing whm but flatly refuses to do anything but melee. When the ls leader asked him to sub a mage job and to cure in the alliance he threw a tantrum. It makes me so damned sick.

I play WHM myself, I have no objections to melee or whatever IF it's for farming reasons or skill up. FFS you just don't melee in exp parties or Sky runs. This guy hates helping people and the very idea of raising seems to offend him so he gives all raise 1 despite having 3.

If you ever have 5 minutes bored, GM Dave. Couldn't you accidentally delete his character?

At 7:07 AM, Blogger Bellemithra said...

awww {/comfort}

My sympathies go out to you and your family!

At 8:08 AM, Blogger Meroduin said...

<3 [GM]Dave.

White Mages who charge for Raises - without a good reason - suck. If I'm in an XP party, and you ask me for Raise because your manaburn screwed up and you want me to come halfway across Caedarva Mire to raise you, you better offer me some cash.

If I'm running across Valkurm Dunes and not /anon, then for the love of Altana don't insult me by offering money. ><

The most insulting is people from my own linkshell who offer me money to come raise. That just makes me crazy. I didn't answer because I was already teleporting, you moron. Who charges Linkshell members for raises? What the hell kind of LS did they come from to have that mindset that they can't get help without gil? I don't want your money! I want you to stand between me and the Jailer of Hope at all times! I want you not to freaking go AFK in Dynamis! And I want you to take me along on Assaults! Don't offer to pay me to take a mere 5 minutes out of my crafting day! ><

At 9:11 AM, Blogger Jen said...

Whm Charging for Raises~

Whm should never charge for raises. The only time this is even remotely acceptable is if the person that requesting the raise is out in BFE and you don't even know them and they send a tell for raise. I was in Jeuno just bout to flag up for xp and was sent a tell to come raise in Lufaise Meadows by someone I didn't even know. I said sorry not heading that way and apoligized. Five minutes later they told me they were desperate and would give me 20k to come raise their friend. They were very respectful and nice ~ and although I already told them no I went out and raised them protected/shell'd them waited on weakened cured refused payment and warped back.

Found a nice reward in my delivery box from them the next day.

But on the other side ~ being in Bibiki and having a pt with a Rdm main healer and have a wipe then they ask for you to R3 they're members is another story... R3'ing one member once is one thing ~ (however they are affecting your party with five other people in it) but a second time?

At 10:02 AM, Blogger Hawklord2112 said...

theres often a WHM in jeuno on my server (Ragnarok) that gives free teles.
which is nice, but time consuming, i usually give him cookies in return. everyone likes cookies.

charging for Raises, especially random-raises, is, as has been said, ass-hattery.

At 10:37 AM, Blogger Eirwen said...

WHMs charging for Raise suck.

What is next? WHMs charging for cures? Fun partying that would be >.>
Tank>> Heal me!
WHM>> Cure I, II or III?
Tank>> Wahtta? Just gimme a Cure!
WHM offers to trade.
Tank>> WTF are you doing?!
WHM>> Cure's don't come free.
WHM>> 200 gil. ((Can I have it?))
Mob hits Tank for an outrages amount of damage.
Tank was defeated by Mob.
BLM starts casting Warp II on WHM.

At 10:52 AM, Blogger moofaloof said...

if you just go down on the whms they tend to give u free tele and raises...

At 12:57 PM, Blogger Arkaine said...

Too bad I don't swing that way. :P


At 10:28 PM, Blogger Yunosuke said...

I don't think I would ever give a blowjob to a white mage for a raise... Unless it was a dire emergency.

And by a dire emergency, I mean "I was drunk"

At 7:11 AM, Blogger moofaloof said...

ok well thats kinda a whm and i have some grey goose...

At 9:19 PM, Blogger Erik said...

Sorry to hear Dave, take your time. Real Life > WoW....or games in general.

At 10:56 PM, Blogger Rajsela said...

I'm sorry for your loss Dave. ; ;

As a WHM I don't ask the players to pay me. I like raising people, not getting paid to do so, that's a bit greedy and WHMS isnt suppose to take other people's gil for raising them...:/ (sometimes when they shout for raise, they usually add an a reward)

Teleports are a different story.

At 1:40 AM, Blogger Kingarthur said...

I have been a long time reader, But never replied. First Time Here.

Sorry for your loss Dave

At 11:48 AM, Blogger Marcio said...

Ha! As WHM main i implemented Charging for raises due to the following reasons:

1- When I am in the middle of doing nothing 8 zones from you and you want me to sneak, invi and invest my time to raise you and you and when I get to you and raise you don't even have the decency to say Thank You, the little heart I have, dies a little bit inside.

2- I found that people are more greatfull for your services when they pay, than not.

3- After teleporting, chocoboing (which i pay a fee), going throuh zones, or OPing (which I pay a fee), spend 20~ mins on my way to you to find out you're already up and you didn't have the decency to tell me... (I add penalty to that).

So if you think being a WHM, and asking to be paid for a service... is rude... then Why do BLM get the leasure of being paid 30% of KS or BC runs? ... all they did was use Magic and their time.

You're right... they're not WHM so that justifies the fact they can charge. After all we are just giving you EXP back. Why is that so important?

(instructions: please use sarcasm when reading the previous statement)

Apperantly many people are willing to hm... wait 40 mins to save 1k exp. In 40 mins you can probably double that ammount in a normal party.

I will not charge under the following circumstances however:
- We are in the same party / event
- I happen to pass by and you were face down *(unless ur an elvaan).
- We are in the same area.
- I'm feeling generous and I'll be under the influence of thoughts "Karma" Do good to receive good....
- Or you might just catch me to be really bored and I look forward to raise you.

Seriously... a thank you goes a long way.

At 11:51 AM, Blogger Marcio said...

i mean to also add...

on #2

Paying to raise someone is kind of ... stupid if you ask me. Sure i raise friends and even move great lengths for them... but strangers? You don't see NINjas giving WHM echo drops when they are silenced, why should we pay to raise you and get no profit / thanks?

~ tsk


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