Tuesday, September 26, 2006

When Good People Go Bad - Vol. 2


Oh, shut up. I can make up words if I want to.

Don't be so melochromatic.

See? Making up words is fun.

Anyway, as if to add emphasis to this week's theme, it seems the higher ups decided to bring the hammer down on some bad, bad people.

3,300 people woke up this morning, tried to log in, and found their precious accounts were now so much digital ruin. Everything they had worked for and spent time on had been blinked out of existance.

Isn't it beautiful?

Now, you're probably asking yourself what this has to do with good people.

Even though it is blatantly clear that third party software is a violation of the ToS, not everyone who uses these programs is a bad person.

Some of them are quite intelligent, quite rational people, I'm sure. They no doubt have only the best of intentions when they use such programs.

You're only using windower so that you can continue your cancer research.

You're only using FleeTool so you can devote more time to your children.

You're only using an AH bot because...

Well... Because you're an asshole.

Despite these noble reasons, the subject comes down to one simple fact.


There is something about third party software that just turns intelligent, thinking people into idiots.

You know better than yo use them.

You know it's wrong.

And yet, you use them because you know that it doesn't count for you because you're not using them "in a bad way".

I can't tell you the number of times a player, who seemed completely normal, ended up using illegal software for some idiotic reason.

Let's do a little reasoning, okay?

You're playing a game. You like playing the game. The game is fun.

You want to have the best character possible. You like your character.

In order to make your character better, you use programs that you know can get your character taken away from you.

That doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense now, does it?

Player>> Hey! I've got umpteen billion gil!
Player>> Hey! I'm awesome!
Player>> Hey! I'm in Mordion Gaol!
Player>> Hey! I'm banned!
Player>> ... Crap.

There is not a single player in this game who can honestly try to plead ignorance on the facts. You can't go to any serious FFXI forum and not get assailed with posts about how wrong it is to use bots and third party software.

This is not news!

You know it's wrong. You can rationalize it all you want, but in the back of your mind, you know you shouldn't be using those programs.

Well, guess what? 3,300 people today found out that their rationalization ain't worth shit.

Let me tell you about one guy today. He was actually a pretty good guy. I had partied with him before and he seemed to be a fairly intelligent guy.

And yet, there he was on the list. Apparently, in between bouts of intelligence, he likes to use FleeTool.

I would have been shocked if I still had any faith in humanity.

He was still playing when the list of bannings came down. Rather than simply banning his account, I unfortunately had to speak with him face to face on the matter.

Who am I kidding? I love doing that.

To start things off on the right note, I warped him directly to Mordion Gaol.

[GM]Dave>> Hail, Adventurer.
[GM]Dave>> I've got some good news and some bad news.
Player>> What's the bad news?
[GM]Dave>> You're getting banned.
Player>> WHAT?!
Player>> HELL NO!
Player>> What's the good news?
[GM]Dave>> Did I say good news?
[GM]Dave>> I meant bad news.
[GM]Dave>> I've got some bad news and some bad news.
Player>> You can't ban me.
Player>> You can't!
[GM]Dave>> Listen... I don't like it any more than you do.
[GM]Dave>> Wait... That's not true.
[GM]Dave>> It doesn't really bother me either way.
[GM]Dave>> I don't care about it any more than you do.
Player>> But I didn't do anything wrong!
[GM]Dave>> I beg to differ.
[GM]Dave>> You were caught using FleeTool to move faster.
Player>> But that doesn't count!
[GM]Dave>> ...
[GM]Dave>> Oh, this is going to be good.
[GM]Dave>> How does that not count?
Player>> I didn't use it to cheat.
Player>> I was just running from place to place.
[GM]Dave>> Can you define the word ' cheat' for me?
Player>> That means breaking the rules.
[GM]Dave>> Uh huh.
[GM]Dave>> Is there a rule about using other programs like FleeTool?
Player>> Yeah.
[GM]Dave>> What does it say?
Player>> That they're not allowed.
[GM]Dave>> So, it's a rule that they're not allowed.
Player>> Yeah.
Player>> I suppose so.
[GM]Dave>> Did you use FleeTool?
Player>> Yeah.
[GM]Dave>> ...
[GM]Dave>> How are you not putting this together in your head?
[GM]Dave>> Were you dropped as a child?
Player>> But that's not cheating!
Player>> I didn't cheat!
[GM]Dave>> You broke a rule.
[GM]Dave>> That's the definition of cheating.
Player>> It's different.
Player>> I didn't use it to do anything bad.
[GM]Dave>> Well, there was your first mistake.
[GM]Dave>> You're getting banned anyway.
[GM]Dave>> You should at least have had some fun doing it.
Player>> I'm not a cheater.
[GM]Dave>> My friend, Mr. Dictionary, disagrees with you.
[GM]Dave>> Hold on... Wait...
[GM]Dave>> He also says you're retarded.
Player>> This is ridiculous!
Player>> Can't you just punish me or something?
[GM]Dave>> I think the banning does that nicely.
Player>> No. Some other punishment.
[GM]Dave>> Oh...
[GM]Dave>> I suppose we could do that.


I warped him to Lower Jeuno in front of the auction house.

What is this? Is [GM]Dave getting soft?

You should know better than that.

Player>> Okay, what's my punishment?
[GM]Dave>> Already taken care of.
Player>> Really?!
Player>> What was it?
[GM]Dave>> You'll see.
[GM]Dave>> Go ahead. You can go.

He was no doubt laughing to himself as he ran away.

Well... Walked away.

Actually... He was barely moving.

Player>> What's going on?!
[GM]Dave>> I thought the punishment should fit the crime.
[GM]Dave>> So I lowered your movement speed.
Player>> Lowered it how much?
[GM]Dave>> You probably don't want to know.
[GM]Dave>> By the way, you should probably hurry.
[GM]Dave>> At this rate you'll make it to the moghouses in about a week.
Player>> This'll make it impossible to play.
[GM]Dave>> Oh... About that...
[GM]Dave>> I've got some good news and some bad news...

Guys, no matter what you think, no matter how you slice it, it all comes out the same.

It's wrong.

I'm sure you're all good people. I'm sure you're all special flowers in the garden of life.

That doesn't really mean anything to me.

We just banned 3,300 special flowers. One more isn't going to kill us.


At 8:39 PM, Blogger Dantaro said...

Lol, indeed a fun post to read. 3rd party software is bad, m'kay?

At 8:43 PM, Blogger dickkead said...

damnit, still didn't get first comment.

At 9:06 PM, Blogger Myloko said...

Good ol' GM Dave justice! :D

At 10:31 PM, Blogger Zarquon said...

I laughed so hard when I logged in and saw that announcement. I've always hated people who use third-party software. ESPECIALLY the FleeTool, I can't count how many times I've been beaten to a mining/logging point or a NM because some supertard hit the Ludicrous Speed button on his damn FleeTool. I hope that every person who ever beat me to a point with FleeTool jumped out of their basement window and managed to kill themselves on impact when they found out their account hwas cancelled.

At 10:37 PM, Blogger Kalerender said...

So I assume Fleetool = speed hax. But windower, whats that do? Is FFXI forced into full-screen and you can't alt-tab while inside it?

At 10:41 PM, Blogger azuza001 said...

Good work GM's. And I'm sure that these bannings also got some Gil Sellers and other annoying anti-intelligent acts of stupidity.

At 11:02 PM, Blogger [GM]Aaron said...

now that the big batch of people are banned, it should be a little nicer around here for a few days...

or maybe a day...

damn, who am i kidding? dave, pass me one of your "reports", please

At 12:06 AM, Blogger luther349 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 12:19 AM, Blogger Rathanel said...

That's precisely the case, Kale. Due to the simultaneous running of FFXI on Xbox-360, PS2, and PC, SE tries to "level the playing field" by forcing the PC version into full-screen mode. If you lose focus on FFXI for whatever reason (AIM popup, ctrl-alt-del, alt-tab, whatever) the game crashes. Windower at its core addresses that issue. Of course, it has since come bundled with other plugins like Tparty (tracks TP and MP of party and alliance members), BloodPace (tracks recast timers on BPs, I think), and others. Most if not all are purely client-side changes of the sort you'd find with WoW interface mods, but they are still technically third-party software, as is the Windower itself, and thus against the ToS. There are many and varied reasons for using the program, but it is still technically illegal. However, from what I've seen it's the Vana'diel equivalent of driving 75 in a 70 zone.

At 1:21 AM, Blogger Redlac said...

I can understand why some folks would use 3rd Party stuff. Vana'diel can be a cruel, cruel world. But you gotta respect the ToS. They're there for a reason.

At 2:34 AM, Blogger WindexHamster said...

Windower =/= wrong.

Yes, it's against the rules, no I don't give a shit.

Policy isn't always right even though it's enforced.

At 5:47 AM, Blogger Rathanel said...

I have /never/ heard of anyone getting banned for using the Windower. I think SE realizes that a) it's harmless as third-party tools go and b) that anywhere from 50-75% of players use it, and most of those who don't have no need due to a second box/laptop.

At 6:28 AM, Blogger Strangeone said...

See? told you guys, high on ban fumes. If SE keeps this up, Dave will be in real danger of starting to like his bosses. They've been uping the quantity and frequency of these mass bannings. If you check out the forums on the major sites, you'll see people have discovered the developer's blog for FFXI. There are indications that SE is forming a group of developers/techs who's sole purpose is to track down and ban RMT and cheaters. SE'll have some digital SWAT/Ninja team to enforce it's ToS. I can just see [GM]Dave sending them a case of his favorite whisky for chrismass once they start sending him ban-lists on a regular basis.

At 6:29 AM, Blogger PrincessChin said...

Actually the person responsible for the most used english windower is in constant contact with Square Enix. Apparently FFXI is coded so bad, they were impressed that someone could make a windower.

Yes its agains the ToS, No, you're not going to get banned. Best bet is to delete all the plugins. Onry use it for windower. Not the TP, MP thing or whatever else those plugins do.

Plus anyone who bans someone for being able to alt+tab to another program rather than ban the obvious gillsellers is a fucking idiot anyway.

Windower isn't cheating, The plugins are cheating. SquareEnix actually knows that 95% of people on PC use windower. They wouldn't ban that many people.

At 7:40 AM, Blogger loque said...

I just want to know how i can type in bold when i speak to a GM itg. My two most recent experiences speaking with them had me fuming, but no direct way to show my frustration...

But i agree. If i were to get banned for using Windower, that's when i start playing another game.

At 8:07 AM, Blogger legolias said...

Dave, is it possible for you guys to make a mistake? I just saw your update and tried to log in and I got banned but I haven't logged in to play FFXI in 4 weeks. I don't see how I could possibly get banned when I haven't even played the damned game. Is this possible?

At 9:59 AM, Blogger Zarquon said...

Someone gave the the windower program, but I deleted it right off. Never even ran it. I've got over four years of work in this game, and I'd rather not jeapordize it by running a program I don't really need. If I need to look something up while I'm playing FFXI, I just use my PSP or my cell phone. It's just as fast, and doesn't put me in danger of losing my account. Alternatively, if both devices are occupied, I just log off FFXI and take care of whatever it is I need to take care of, then log back in. My life in FFXI isn't so important that I can't log out for a minute to do something. No one really NEEDS windower. I'm sure that comment will result in flaming, but I'll be the one laughing when I'm still playing and the guy running Windower is banned.

At 1:01 PM, Blogger dreamkiller said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 1:03 PM, Blogger dreamkiller said...

i think your blog sucks, feeding people to dragons is realy stupid & old. youre alwais calling people retarded but have you ever cheked you're blogs damm thats stupid.
if you are real then im calling you out
think you can take me. then bring it on bitch
my character name is kayu & im on unicorn server
ill be waiting for you pussy

At 1:08 PM, Blogger LawlTastic said...

There is something about third party software that just turns intelligent, thinking people into idiots.

You know better than yo use them.

Looks like someone was using third party software.

At 1:29 PM, Blogger RDMFire said...

Windower is a great tool for people who have a libarary of music they like to listen to in the background of thier computer.
It is 'our' computers, and having to log in and out all the time to change 1 song isn't that fun.
True it is against ToS, but Chinese people can't even read the ToS. Does that matter? No, SE makes thier money on whoever plays.
I don't think Windower is a big issue that will be sought at for banning people with, but it is better to play safe than sorry.

And Dreamkiller, this is a comment thread for Blog posts, not a e-penis measuring tape. So shut the hell up you retard. Yeah.

At 1:55 PM, Blogger tarinakarelia said...

playing music in the background of FFXI doesnt cause it to shut down. just be smart enough to make sure your playlist doesnt suck before signing on. adjust your ingame volumes so thr music isnt contradicting and voila! no need to cheat. i believe the 90% estimate of windower users is horrendously off-base. i would go with maybe 30-40%. the rest of us have time, patience, and possibly even friends, so we dont mind getting the info the old fashioned way. if you think you may need the info, print it out before you log on. the concept isnt that hard, and wether its cheating in a "bad way" or not... its cheating. also, the 500 billion people crying everytime SE jams your windowers so you cant use them effectively without your POL crashing constantly... they arent just letting it slide.

At 2:21 PM, Blogger noulo said...

The number of people using windower is definatly not 90% but it probally is around or above 50% of PC users. A lot of people who use it dont think it is cheating since checking a website while running FF is something that PS2 users or Xbox users can do. However the windower opens up the door for FleeTool POS FFXiApp ect

At 2:40 PM, Blogger Arya said...

The people who say 90% use windowers are probably using a windower :p

At 2:56 PM, Blogger Natch said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 3:00 PM, Blogger Natch said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 3:02 PM, Blogger Natch said...

i think your blog sucks, feeding people to dragons is realy stupid & old. youre alwais calling people retarded but have you ever cheked you're blogs damm thats stupid.
if you are real then im calling you out
think you can take me. then bring it on bitch
my character name is kayu & im on unicorn server
ill be waiting for you pussy

.....Thank GOD I have an immunity to this sort of thing. I've dealt with illiterate english-rapers so many times it's not even funny.

Ok, 1st off, YOU are the retard here.

Let's look at this checklist that is NOT biased against you in any way, shape, or form.

-You're retarded.(Check)

-You could not spell your way out of a paper bag, even if the bag is sitting right next to you and you are in possesion of a barrel of galosine and several matches.(Check)

-You're gullible.(Check)

-You think the measure of someone's worth as a person is based on weather or not you can kick their ass in a Final Fantasy game that you priotize above everything else sans breathing.(Check)

-You're a 12 year old who likes to show off his incredible bad-assery by insulting people over the internet via your massive and complicated vocabulary of big-boy words.(Check)

I rest my case. Jury, have you reached a decision of either "He is retarded" or "He is retarded"?

At 3:09 PM, Blogger discordkitty said...

He's probably just making stuff up, I doubt that's really his character - probably the name/server of someone he hates and wants to get in trouble. Either way he is retarded.

At 3:13 PM, Blogger TigerWolf said...

Hate to tell you retards, third party software is NOT illegal. Sure it's violation of the ToS but a game's ToS and EULA are not binding in a court of law.

On top of that, there are a lot of people who use windower for chatting with friends and do not use any of the bundled programs with it. A video game company does not have the right to tell anyone that they can not 'legally' multitask.

If you want to get technical, FFXI violates some of the Windows EULA, which specifies that programs are not allowed to override the windows key/alt+tab features of windows.

At 3:23 PM, Blogger Exc said...

[GM]Dave, I've had this same agrument with my in-game friends about windower countless times. It's fucking CHEATING! I say anyone using windower needs to get delux packaged. It's third party software, ergo, it's cheating. I see no gray area when it comes to windower.

At 3:31 PM, Blogger Exc said...

"princesschin said...
Yes its agains the ToS, No, you're not going to get banned."

I've personaly made GM calls on people using windower and never seen them again, or have talked to them later and said they got temporarily suspended.

At 4:30 PM, Blogger RDMFire said...

I don't really consider Windower 'cheating' not really anyway to benefit self in game with the application. Not like flee, or a fish bot. The plugins on windower are sort of cheating yes.

A lot of you have really good points, get information first printed, set suitable playlist.
I agree, if you want to play a game, play by the rules.
Seriously though, you won't ever be able to have everyone of humanity follow rules. Take RL for instance, name 10 people you know who actually follow every rule and don't cut corners and don't lie and don't cheat to become better than someone else.

Wasted energies on arguing about ToS and breaking rules. I say we just get back to playing and let the people who get paid to care about 3rd party programs worry about them.

At 5:54 PM, Blogger Tiran Kenja said...

Wow. This is really great
TigerWolf said...
Hate to tell you retards, third party software is NOT illegal. Sure it's violation of the ToS but a game's ToS and EULA are not binding in a court of law.

So? You don't have any rights in a MMO except for what is grated by the owner of the game. Period. Nothing is argued in a court of law.

TigerWolf said...
If you want to get technical, FFXI violates some of the Windows EULA, which specifies that programs are not allowed to override the windows key/alt+tab features of windows.

Uhm no it don't. EULA means End User License Agreement. It is something for the User to agree to. Not the programs run on it.

At 6:53 PM, Blogger Asigiri said...

Just because something goes against the ToS, that does not mean it is cheating except in the simple fact that it is violating a rule. Unlike many plug-ins, etc, Windower simply allows a PC user to use one of their system's key features, multi-tasking. Personally, I'm quite fed up with the idea that my system has to dedicate itself 100% to a game such as this.

So they want to even the playing field huh? Would make sense except, apparently they haven't considered the large number of console gamers that would have a computer available, nearby or not. Besides it is entirely unfair to think that a player would use multi-tasking only for a game play advantage. Perhaps if it were a fast paced shoort or something similar I would not even consider it an issue, but the fact of the matter is, FFXI is an MMO and a game of which can have a lot of down time for one reason or another. It's my PC and I shouldn't be told how I can or can not use it.

Yeah, I really don't believe it is to be chating when I want to take some time to cheak a few other things online, change some music, chat with someone real quick, etc. whilst playing any MMO whatsoever.

Now for those who use bots, etc? Fuck 'em, I don't think anyone would miss them =P

At 8:13 PM, Blogger Furioku said...

Ahh so that is an illegal action i alwsys wondered why i randomly see people run by me at warp speed 0.0 Well now i now those people will be leaving my presence soon xD keep up the good work dave

At 10:03 PM, Blogger luther349 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 10:04 PM, Blogger [GM]Dave said...


For some reason I don't understand, the blog won't let me publish tonight's update.

It's done and I hit publish, but it sticks at 0% and doesn't change.

If anyone reads this, the update will be posted just as soon as I figure this out.


At 10:14 PM, Blogger luther349 said...

i knoe alot agree and hears some points on why. ever be right in the middle of fighting a monster and bling your games dead couse you forgot to close your im softwhere and you come back dead. yes thers always the close the im softwhere but we all forget that half the time and stuff like xfire that lets you im in any mmo including ff but it can still be annoying. someone said consoles run full screen but a console is not a pc they always run full screen always have. a pc does something consoles dont do and thats multitask and a game locked in full screen mode is far from standerds its just poor coding. non harmfull client side mods should not be agenst the rules such as a gui change or adding a feature like running in windowd mode. and yes people have gotten banned from running windower in ff11 i myself havent sence i dont run it nor even play anymore but for every persion they ban for such a stupid reasion the flowing happons. they lost a custmer and that custmer is going to tell his frends to play something else. they lose profit.

At 1:02 AM, Blogger notkesirahonest said...

It never fails to astound me how cheats manage to justify it to themselves.

"But i'm only using it to stop the game from crashing with pop-ups"

So disable auto updates and switch off stuff you don't need. I do, it works fine.

"I only want to see the percentage of HP left, that's not cheating the information is already there!"

If it's already there why do you need to cheat to see it?

"Being able to run fast isn't cheating, it's just a more efficient way to get from place to place"

If the rest of us can't do it, and you benefit frm getting there sooner, and it's against rules. it's cheating fucknuts!

"I only want to be able to see webpages, other games don't force you into full screen, that's not cheating"

So go play another game! I'll be more than happy to have one less cheat!

If there's one thing I hate more than cheats, it's cheats that try to convince you 'it's ok'. And just look at the comments on here... so many delusional cheats. Retard just doesn't cover it.

At 7:48 AM, Blogger Quylein said...

Look Im to lazy to put more on my computer then I have so I don't have windower. But just because it's agsint the TOS dosen't mean it's a cheat, it just means your breaking a rule.
Now that inst to say you can't go window mode to use 3rd party shit to cheat but either way there are some who will cheat one way or another.

At 8:57 AM, Blogger Inia said...

just because it's agsint the TOS dosen't mean it's a cheat, it just means your breaking a rule

Hey genius? Deliberately breaking a rule = cheating.

Even if someone had a non-retarded justification, and I've yet to see one that isn't retarded, it's irrelevant.

Violating the ToS does not break any penal code. SE cannot have you sent to jail. Civil court, where contract disputes go, is another matter. You *did* agree to the ToS, which is, in essence, a contract. You agreed repeatedly. And actually, companies do have the option to pursue criminal charges against customers who repeatedly commit fraud and abuse. Knowingly using prohibited third party software with the intention of deliberately circumventing SE's security (crap though it may be) counts as fraud. You actually can go to jail for that.

Also, FFXI is not a Windows certified product, so Microsoft has no right to dictate to SE how it may or may not run its game.

If you want to run Windower, or some other cheat, fine. But stop saying it's not cheating, stop making excuses. Accept that you may get caught, and that SE is fully justified in banning your ass if they do. You have no right to whine about it.

Having said all that, I'd rather have n00b flee hackers running around than the roach den of RMT. SE seems to focus its sweeps on Windowers based hacks like FleeTool, and given the number of RMT still around, Windower is obviously not the portal for their hacks.

At 9:33 AM, Blogger Rathanel said...

Ok, a lot of the omgwtfwindowerusersgotohell people seem to be under some sort of misunderstanding... things like FleeTool, FFXIAssist, WarpTool or whatever the hell it was, are entirely seperate from Windower (at least the version of it I've seen). They don't come bundled with it. They aren't even related that I know of.

And you also seem to be mixing two different kinds of third party programs.

1) Programs that are purely client-side and do not effect your in-game behavior at all, such as Windower (and I think FFXIAssist, although I don't really know what all that does).

2) Programs that alter your character's behavior in ways that break the rules of the in-game world. FleeTool, WarpTool, etc.

If you think these are the same in degree of "cheating", I expect to see you turning in your Driver's License to be revoked next time you go one mile per hour over the speed limit.

I won't argue that Windower is "allowed", since it's explicitly against the ToS. I will argue that it has absolutely zero in-game affect. It doesn't change stats, doesn't change mobs, doesn't change ANYTHING. Even the somewhat more egregious TParty doesn't actually change anything within the game itself. It makes information that you could easily get by other means automatically available on the client computer. Absolutely ZERO impact on other people.

Now, if you want to flame the people using the second class of programs, go right ahead. I'll be there with you.

The difference? One changes the game and effects other people, one doesn't. If you can't tell the difference, then perhaps /you/ are the one who needs the help.

And for all the people shouting the SE targets Windower... have you ever seen them release an announcement regarding it specifically? I remember one for the WarpTool, haven't seen one for Windower. Changes to their internal code during an update messing with programs expecting a very specific version of that code /does not/ equate to intentionally breaking the other program. They certainly aren't going out of their way to keep it running, but I haven't seen any indication that they are intentionally aiming to break it.

At 1:56 AM, Blogger notkesirahonest said...

Rathanel said...

Alot of half-informed bullshit excuses.

Try using these othre hacks -without- windower or a form of it.

For Gods sakes. What is so damned hard about admitting you cheat? (people who use cheats and windower in general not Rath personally)

You cheat, you get punished, people hate you. Live with it! It was your choice all along. No one forced you to cheat.

At 6:09 AM, Blogger Rathanel said...

If you mean those cheats come in the form of programs you have to start after FFXI is loaded, thus requiring a form of Windower in order to alt-tab, then fine. I suppose if you look at it that way Windower becomes some sort of "gateway drug" for the hackers of the world. 'Course, that makes about as much sense as saying owning a baseball bat is one step away from Assault with a Deadly Weapon.

I've never so much as looked for FleeTool or whatever, so I can't say much about how to actually use them. No interest in learning how to, either. But just because Windower is required does not mean that Windower or the people who make it are doing it for the express purpose of making game-breaking programs like FleeTool usable (although they certainly are doing it to make things against the ToS possible, like alt-tabbing or screenshots... which I suppose makes Fraps "cheating" too, doesn't it?).

And you're going to have to do better than "half-informed bullshit" if you want to actually get your point across. Proving me wrong is generally a good place to start.

At 6:33 PM, Blogger Nabeshin said...

Completelly agree with Rath here on this one. The analogy with driving your car is perfect for this situation. Sure I might be speeding a little, and yes I am breaking the rules. However am I somehow cheating at life? I don't really think so.
Cheating seems to be a word that implys some malicious action, whereas breaking the rules could be innocent, although still wrong.
Windower is "illegal" in the ffxi sense? Yes.
Windower is "wrong"? Well, I'd like to hear an argument for why it is. Purely windowing, the ability to run other software alongside ffxi. Is that really something that you think is harmful to the gaming experience?
I completely understand people's frustrations with retards using flee tools and everything, which is cheating and breaking the rules, but Windowing is clearly not both.

Just my two gil.

At 6:35 AM, Blogger Strangeone said...

If you want to get technical, FFXI violates some of the Windows EULA, which specifies that programs are not allowed to override the windows key/alt+tab features of windows.
Um, sorry but it doesn't. You can alt-tab just fine or alt escape just fine in FFXI. The problem is that FFXI then kills your connection to the server because it's lost full screen mode. So it isn't actualy violating the windows certif thingy on how programs are supposed to behave. It's just got some nasty behaviour from a human interface point of view. Not from a windows point of view.

At 2:40 AM, Blogger Nyahnyah said...

Granted Windower is against the ToS, but I have to disagree that it's "cheating".
The term 'cheating' (in a video game) isn't necessarily 'breaking the rules' it's any tampering with the (coding) of the game's program -or- (as stated by SE on this subject: anything that can give a player an advantage over other fellow players).
Depending on your opinion of this but that could even mean that folks who change the music files in FFXI are 'cheaters' as that's tampering with the game files.
And on the second definition, then anyone looking at game forums or even Brady Games guidebook could also be 'cheaters'.
This may be biased as this is coming from someone who used to use a Windower for the PC. I don' anymore only because I got rid of the computer and now use the PS2. If I still had a PC I'd definitely use a Windower again.
If SE had designed the game with windowing capability (like any other game out there practically), the issue with Plug-Ins wouldn't be a problem at all (with legit players).
The entire idea that SE has by saying: we don't allow a windowing program in-game because it gives an advantage over console users' (not a direct quote); sounds like a complete cop-out on their part to me. It's weak and I believe they are truly reaching for an excuse.
The point is:
(a) it should be a gamer's right to window in and out of a game.
(b) using one is risky because it allows people to steal your account information.

At 9:31 AM, Blogger Dave said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

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At 10:38 AM, Blogger Mori said...

And this is why I play World of Warcraft even though it's a worse game. I'd never use speed hax or bots or anything else that affected actual game play, but if the game's user interface is stupid enough that it won't let me play in windowed mode/move my portrait around the screen/open my mail with less than four mouse clicks I refuse to believe I'm a bad person for telling the developers they are idiots and downloading a mod that changes the look and feel of the user interface. These don't give me an advantage over other players unless not being incredibly f'king frustrated is an advantage. Okay, they give me a huge advantage over other people, in that I'm not so bored out of my mind that I throw my computer through the window, but I'd think the company would be happy about that because I'm still playing and the bored, frustrated player probably isn't.

At 7:29 AM, Blogger MShake82 said...

Didn't they actually have an update so you could play your game windowed or full screen?

Been a while. Either way I used a windower. Funny the one time I bumped into a GM we had a chat about. He was like we don't ban people for windower, hell I use a windower. Made me LOL.

The fact that the game coudln't be windowed was a huge flaw. Wonder if they made the same mistake with XII?


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